* robfrankel   Yes, there IS a Free Clinic today, Monday, March 8, 2010! It will begin at the top of the hour as designated by the clock in the upper right hand corner of your browser.
At that time, I'll be back here, hanging out for an hour to help anyone who drops by with their branding, business and other issues.
So grab a cup of coffee, a muffin and limber up your fingers for the web's longest-running, publicly archived business chat!
* robfrankel   Alrighty then, the clinic is now open!
I'll hang out with an open browser for the next 60 minutes, in the event anyone drops by requiring help with their business, branding or other issues!
* robfrankel   Hey Linda. Welcome. Jump in when the mood strikes!
- linda_neumann   I wanted to hang out and check out what goes on in here! Have not had the opportunity to participate before so found myself with a canceled meeting giving me a chance to check this out.
* robfrankel   It's VERY low key and casual. People drop in and out over the hour. You never know who or how many.
* robfrankel   I did recommend you online a few weeks ago. Hope you got some business from it
- linda_neumann   SO I have a question for you, I work with a few branding agencies and it seems to me they change their logo and brand too much. I have not changed my logo at all and wonder if I should.
- linda_neumann   Thanks for recommending me - it is much appreciated. I did not get any business but just the mention is more than appreciated.
* robfrankel   Well, it goes pretty much like this:
If you believe that a brand's main function is to cultivate trust, than its stands to reason that stability is part of that reliance.
* robfrankel   So the subtext of changing your logo or look frequently is that you're constantly shifting with the wind. Not good, in my opinion, to cultivating trust and actually serves to undermine credibility.
* robfrankel   Now, that's not to say that you can't update and tweak. As I wrote in ROBX, General Electric has has the same light blub logo for over a century, but if you look carefully, it's been updated over the years very subtly.
* robfrankel   Even my own web page and logo -- which some people swear has never been updated -- gets an update every six months or so. But the changes are gradual and imperceptible to the casual observer.
- linda_neumann   I find myself, in dealing with THEIR customers, always reminding them of the current name. So that really got me thinking that it probably is not good. They tell me that they are a branding company so they need to show they re-brand successfully. Never quite got it.
- linda_neumann   We are in the process of updating our web presence but not changing the name or logo. I think the familiarity is comforting to many and I like what you said about gradually changing, it makes more sense.
* robfrankel   Now you know why I'm as vitriolic about hack "branding agencies" that are really nothing more than warmed over design houses. They do logos and graphic design, but have no concept of brand strategy.
* robfrankel   In a funny way, it's great that your client agencies feel that way, however erroneous they are, because it means they buy more from you! :D
* robfrankel   IF they keep re-working themselves, it really communicates how unsure they are of themselves. And that's not good when asking people to pay you.
- linda_neumann   You are right! We love name changes, but I would much better LOVE them doing more business. They refer some, but they are not doing well and I really think that has something to do with it. No one can find them!
* robfrankel   There's something there about the cobbler children having no shoes.
I find many, many agencies that claim to do branding have no idea what they're doing. I frequently have to come in and clean up their mess.
- linda_neumann   So we started a facebook presence mostly because our college accounts communicate that way. What should we keep in mind while we are building it? AND --- will you be our fan?
* anita2306   How is their organic SEO?
* robfrankel   Ah Facebook. Sigh.
* robfrankel   First off, what kind of result are you expecting from Facebook? I mean, specifically?
* robfrankel   We just completed a test of ads on Facebook and were not impressed....
- linda_neumann   Okay Rob, why the Sigh. Actually we are having fun and have generated some business as we showcase fun new products. I have to have it available because we get our colleges ordering via facebook email so I figured we might as well.
- linda_neumann   What did you test?
* robfrankel   Well if there's real business coming through there, that's a positive sign. If Facebook is their weapon of choice, you're wise to mine it.
- linda_neumann   Hi Anita, are you referring to the branding agency?
* robfrankel   So clear this up for me: You get Facebook e-mails from colleges and then you follow up?
- linda_neumann   Rob there is real business, I just don't know how much effort to put into it. For my business it is all about product awareness and fun with it. Although we do some statistics to show the ROI that you get with promotional products.
* robfrankel   So a college finds you via facebook and e-mails you a request for more info or places an order?
- linda_neumann   Rob, facebook has emails within it, they join as fans and see products they like for their college and then email me that they want to purchase some. Some have just requested product right on the site.
We have probably only had 2 or 3 orders directly on the site but the private emails have been increasing that request quotes for products.
- patrysha   Good morning :-)
* anita2306   Linda, yes.
* robfrankel   That's great you're able to pull in orders. I think there's a large temptation to assume that Facebook is actually doing more than generating leads, though. It's key to take those leads and then farm them off Facebook.
* robfrankel   Hi patrysha!
* robfrankel   I would never use Facebook for anything other than lead generation and then take those leads offline, which I'm sure you're doing.
- linda_neumann   Anita, I have no idea since I don't do anything but work on their clients with them for the promotional products or promotion ideas. I don't know what they do for their SEO. They are a digital agency so I am sure they are all over it, but then who knows? They claim to be a branding agency as well! I guess whatever sells, right?
* robfrankel   Overall, I'd be really surprised to see Facebook as anywhere near the top lead generators producing real revenue for you.
* anita2306   I am referring to the SEO on their website.
- linda_neumann   Rob,
Yes we do take the orders off line and follow up directly. Have a lot of contests and fun stuff going on so we collect information from them. It is no where near a top lead generator but if we have to be in the space then we might as well play.
* robfrankel   For the price of playing on Facebook, it's a great way to add media presence. That part works. But after that, you want to keep tabs on the true cost of Facebook versus actual revenue generated.
- linda_neumann   So while we are on the subject, Rob, what about Twitter. I love following you but what do you think about companies getting involved that are not big companies.
* robfrankel   Linda, out of all the new media, I totally believe in Twitter. It's a media that when used properly, works quite well.
- linda_neumann   Anita, I don't know about their SEO on their website as I work jointly with then on their clients and don't do their marketing. Why do you ask?
- linda_neumann   Elaborate with us please Rob
* robfrankel   The beauty of Twitter -- at least one of them -- is that even a tiny company can leverage the power of a popular Tweeter with one tweet.
- blreddick   I definitely share Linda's concern--that leads from Twitter are not big companies with the kind of budget my ideal clients would have. If you're doing b2b services, what's the best way to use Twitter effectively?
* anita2306   Never mind.
* robfrankel   If I mention one relevant obsveration that's retweeted by a power tweeter, my awareness and followers increases. I meet more like-minded people.
- linda_neumann   So how do you convert those into leads? OR do you try to? Is it more about connecting with people?
* robfrankel   That having been said, I also think it's critical to monitor and limit your Tweets to a parameter of topics that are brand consistent. For example, for branding and cultural observations, I use brandingexpert. But for my other, non related business, I use different Twitter accounts.
* robfrankel   Linda, in 2009, I can trace about $20K in fees directly to Twitter. That's not bad.
- linda_neumann   Not bad at all Rob! Good job.
* robfrankel   However, not ONE time did I directly pitch my services. In fact, the most direct "pitch" I do on Twitter is a reminder that my book is available at my site.
- linda_neumann   So you just increase awareness that you know what you are talking about, people see that and then want to work with you?
- patrysha   My twitter experience has led to paying clients and opened up new opportunities for speaking, which did eventually lead to business.
- blreddick   Interesting you mention different Twitter accounts. I'm a small business and I'm the face of it. I'm launching a new venture and I'm concerned about how the new venture will reflect on the old and the old on the new--will having multiple sites and twitter feeds look amateur or like I'm distracted and not serious about both/either? Basically, I'm worried about spreading my brand too thin.
* robfrankel   Other than that, I'm very impressed in Twitter's ability to connect likeminded people. I actually have made many friends around the world. With out mutual connection comes a trust and respect. And since those people are also in business, some biz connections do happen.
* robfrankel   Hey Reddick! You made it in!
- blreddick   Yes! thanks for your help.
* robfrankel   Yes, I think it's critical to maintain different brand identities for different brands. And Twitter is as much a brand identifier as a logo is.
- blreddick   But if you're thinking about personal brand, is there a danger that people will realize multiple feeds are you and you'll lose credibility?
* robfrankel   Importantly, one business's brand strategy could undermine another of yours, so you want to keep them separate.
* robfrankel   Well, first off, there's no such thing as personal branding, so let's start there. But that's a whole other story.
* robfrankel   You'll only lose credibility with people who would never do business with you otherwise, and here' how that works:
* robfrankel   First, if you maintain separate accounts, why would anyone be motivated to spend their time trying to connect seemingly unrelated dots? And if they did, is that the kind of person you want as a client?
* robfrankel   Second, when you think about it, maintaining separate accounts is the most responsible thing you can do in order to keep each brand pure and focused.
* robfrankel   Even the IRS demands you keep your personal and business FINANCIAL accounts separated. The reason is to prevent confusion.
* robfrankel   Remember, branding is largely about leading and educating your prospects. They rely 100% on what you tell them. If they get confused, it's because you confused them.
* robfrankel   For the record, i have six Twitter accounts.
- blreddick   Well I'm not thinking about personal feed and business feed, it's two different business feeds. But I see your point.
- blreddick   Hm . . . I'm okay with clients that would be interested in checking me out. If we're going to do several thousand dollars of business together, I understand that they want to know who I am.
* robfrankel   Right. If you have two businesses, do you want people to question whether they're contacting you for fishing tackle or house inspections?
- blreddick   But if I have a client who loves my house inspections and needs some plumbing work done, don't I want them to know that their favotie house inspector can do plumbing (to continue your metaphor)?
* robfrankel   Yeah, but truth is that by far, most clients barely do ANY due diligence. Truth is that many clients sign my service agreements have never even been to my web site. At least not deeply.
- blreddick   favorite, not favotie!
- blreddick   Wow--maybe I'm giving my clients too much credit!
* robfrankel   If they want plumbing, and that indeed is a subspecialty of yours, then plumbing is a sub-brand of house inspections. This is why it's so crucial to hammer out your brand strategy BEFORE executing any marketing.
* anita2306   I just found this in my inbox, and it is relevant to the earlier discussion about Twitter: http://www.wdfm.com/current.html
- blreddick   Well that's where I am now--working on the brand strategy before I launch the new venture to make sure I figure out how my specialties do or don't work together.
* robfrankel   BLReddick, I kid you not: I recently had a client with major six figure contract who never even bothered to ask for references, let alone call them.
* robfrankel   BLReddick, the important part is PRIORITIZING your brand strategy so that you lead with the first message and the rest flow naturally from that.
- blreddick   Thanks for the link--I'm already following one of the B2B examples, but I'll check out the others.
* pete1405   That would tell me to be very leery of that client
* robfrankel   Pete, they were a great client. Paid like clockwork. Treated me well. Very professional. Just not real diligent.
* anita2306   As an example of what Rob said earlier, I had no idea he had 6 accounts on Twitter!
* pete1405   That would tell me to be very leery of that client
* robfrankel   Getting back to Twitter, I'm very impressed with it as a platform. It's very responsive. And far more effective -- at least for my purposes -- on social, business and intellectual levels.
* robfrankel   Yes, I have six accounts, one for each of five businesses, and one that lies somewhat dormant, protecting my own name.
* anita2306   I have 2 accounts, one for my SEO brand, and the other for Internet marketing.
- linda_neumann   I have a new respect for Twitter. Facebook works for us because of what we do, but I am going to give twitter a little more respect and give it a try.
- blreddick   When you say prioritizing your brand strategy, do you mean making brand strategy a priority (over marketing, sales, fulfillment/execution) or do you mean something else? Like having priorities w/in your brand strategy?
* robfrankel   Linda, Twitter works well when you take part in discussions, impart your own personal wisdom and experiences. People really value that if you do it sincerely.
* robfrankel   BLReddick, by prioritizing, I mean leading with one central message, instead of trying to cram everything into one statement. Lead with one aspect and once you've captured interest, allow the prospect to ask more about your brand and its other aspects.
- linda_neumann   Thanks Rob, your advice is valuable and much appreciated!
* robfrankel   For example, I lead with "brand strategy." But once a prospect understands that, he begins asking about advertising, and other services that we do offer.
* robfrankel   Any time, Linda. Always good to see you and hear from you.
- blreddick   then do you also market your advertising services through other channels or do you only offer advertising to people who had first approached you about brand strategy?
* robfrankel   In fact, after brand strategy, our next level of messages are about implementation, which includes advertising, branded communitis, viral marketing, etc.
* robfrankel   BLReddick, we always lead with brand strategy.
* anita2306   Linda, if you need more info about either Facebook or Twitter, especially about how to build a great fan page, feel free to ask me.
- blreddick   Well, here's what I'm working on and why I'm struggling. My business has been writing and editing since 2006. I do branded content, web sites, marketing stuff. I specialize in corporate history but I've mostly done that as a subcontractor to agencies that specialize in corporate history. Now I'm working on launching my own corporate history agency and I'm trying to figure out how to keep my writing and editing business alive but keep it from competing with the new history venture. Advice?
* robfrankel   TEN MINUTE WARNING -- Still plenty of time!
* robfrankel   Yeah, BLReddick: Lead with the one that generates the most revenue for you. That *sounds" like the corporate history thing, because it's a niche and because corporate budgets are usually more substantial than editing.
* robfrankel   Figure it this way:
Anyone who would hire you for editing and writing would be impressed by your corporate history portfolio, but how many corporate clients would be impressed by your editing resume?
- blreddick   That's the hope for the corporate history business! It's just scary to make that the #1 when it's new and has no income, but the other business has limited growth potential but is more established.
* robfrankel   You could probably get higher editing rates leveraging yourself as "the corporate historian for XYZ, Corp."
* robfrankel   That's why you may want to maintain two brands over the course of transition.
- blreddick   Yes, that's exactly my concern--the writing clients will love the corporate history stuff. But I don't want the corporate history clients to find the writing stuff and think I'm small-time. (My editing rates are already pretty high compared to most because I'm pretty awesome at what I do! But interesting idea.)
* robfrankel   The toughest thing to do is make that Sophie's Choice. But you gotta do it. I did it when converting from "Frankel & Anderson Advertising" to "RobFrankel.com Branding"
- blreddick   So do I launch the corporate history brand without my name on it at all to keep the brands totally separate? Or just figuring anybody doing the deep google diving is just going to find what they find.
* robfrankel   HOWEVER, once you make the transition, you get to fold in your other services if you wish. OR you can STILL maintain BOTH under different brands. Take a look at http://www.robfrankel.com home page and you'll see how I structured my own.
- blreddick   Definitely--I'm at the Sophie's choice moment!
* robfrankel   Okay, WHAT YOU CALL THE BRAND is a whole different approach. If you intend on selling the business later, choose a fictitious name so that you're not personally handcuffed to it.
* robfrankel   If you want to be known as "the go to guy for corporate history" then by all means use your own professional name.
- blreddick   Oh yes, for sure--the history brand will have a stand-alone name. But I had planned to put my name on it, too, as the founder and person behind the brand.
* robfrankel   Eventually, as the "go to guy" you'll have cultivated so much credibility withyour clients from corporate history that they'll naturally hand you work in your secondary areas of expertise.
- blreddick   My name--like in the "about" stuff.
- blreddick   Well, that's the hope! That I can be the "go to guy" for corporate history and then potentially for related services if clients need it and I want to keep that stuff up.
* robfrankel   BLReddick, don't use your brand to puff up your size. If it's just you, make it just you. Credibility is key. Fakes are EASY to sniff out, and once sniffed, forever undermine your brand.
* robfrankel   TWO MINUTES -- remember, the room stays open for another 15 minutes after I leave, in case you'd like to schmooze and stuff.
- blreddick   Definitely--my business is just me, but with some other partner businesses for offering particular packages. No faking.
* robfrankel   Hey, when prospects ask me how many people work for me, I always answer the same way: "I'm my only full time employee"
* robfrankel   Which is true. Doesn't mean I don't hire out as needed. Turns out most clients are impressed by that little piece of financial acumen.
- blreddick   Do clients then say, "how will you have enough time for everything we need from you?"
* robfrankel   I tell them that nobody has ever had a problem with that over the last couple decades....
* robfrankel   Alrighty then, that should do it for another Monday! Thanks everyone for your insights. I've gotta run, but the room stays open for 15 more minutes. Archives should be up in a day or two! Have a great week. I'll see you online!
- blreddick   What did you say when you were new?
- blreddick   Okay, Thanks, Rob! This was extremely helpful.
* robfrankel   Same thing, except minus the "decades" part! Gotta split!