* robfrankel   Yes, there IS a Free Clinic today, Monday, July 19, 2010! It will begin at the top of the hour as designated by the clock in the upper right hand corner of your browser.
At that time, I'll be back here, hanging out for an hour to help anyone who drops by with their branding, business and other issues.
So grab a cup of coffee, a muffin and limber up your fingers for the web's longest-running, publicly archived business chat!
* robfrankel   Okie doke, so it's hot here in the USA and the middle of summer. That doesn't mean there aren't burning branding and business issues to be solved. So I'll be here for the next 60 minutes, keeping my browser open in case anyone drops by needing some help or just a good sounding board with the their business, branding or marketing issues.
* anita2306   Good morning, Rob.
* robfrankel   Hi Anita. How's it going?
* anita2306   Busy with clients.
* robfrankel   That's good news. Sounds like things have improved.
* anita2306   And trying to educate one of them on why it is taking so long for them to rank high on Google.
* robfrankel   Education is about 60% of any consulting
* anita2306   They are in a highly competitive space.
* anita2306   They are doing quite well on Bing
* anita2306   But everyone is still focused on Google
* robfrankel   I find that the more competition, the better chance we have with clients. Otherwise, they have no means by which to compare themselves, which they like to do
* robfrankel   How is Bing doing?
* anita2306   In what way?
* anita2306   As a search engine, Bing is doing very well. It is about to take over the results for Yahoo, earning the name MicroHoo
* robfrankel   It blundered on to the scene pretty clumsily, but I haven't heard much about its success since.
* anita2306   Apparently Google lost market share last month to both Bing and Yahoo
* robfrankel   That's what I was wondering.
* anita2306   As usual, there is still an identity crisis between MSN and Bing
* anita2306   And there is still something out there called Windows Live
* robfrankel   Speaking of Yahoo, I noticed they quietly have either sold or "merged" Yahoo Personals with Match.com. Apparaently Yahoo can't make money even in the singles market.
* robfrankel   I thought Windows Live WAS Bing, just prettied up and relaunched.
* anita2306   Their directory is pretty much dead as well.
* robfrankel   Jeez, what's left of Yahoo?
* anita2306   I am worried about some of the larger properties where they are doing well, but the idiot at the helm seems prepared to jettison everything
* anita2306   Now Windows Live seems to be an application of sorts
* anita2306   Like MyBlogLog, Flickr, and Delicious
* robfrankel   Yeah, that's another call of mine. I KNEW Carol Bartz was a huge mistake.
* anita2306   There were rumors that MyBlogLog was going down, so I pulled all my blogs away from it
* robfrankel   It's funny how so many of the big tech/web companies have no idea how to manage or market things.
* anita2306   Look at what Disney did to InfoSeek
* webs   Good Morning!
* robfrankel   That's one reason why I decided to host my blog at blogspot. Should be a while until Google pulls those.
* anita2306   No one even uses Go anymore
* robfrankel   Hey Webs, Happy Summertime!
* robfrankel   Oh, Disney has the Sidam Touch: Everything they touch turns to shit.
* anita2306   Sidam?
* robfrankel   It's an old gag, from the marketing days. Sort of a backwards Midas
* webs   Time for BBQ... Well here in Florida the weather is always perfect for BBQ :)
* anita2306   Pixar seems to be coming up roses, though
* webs   Hey Disney needs the tax breaks on losses
* anita2306   Disney could have taken InfoSeek and made it into a Disney search engine
* robfrankel   Pixar is doing well because it's a Jobs company and Jobs doesn't do a deal he doesn't' control.
* robfrankel   Webs, I suspect Disney has enough failures to supply them with tax breaks til 2096
* webs   If they packaged it as a "Family Friendly" search engine it could work
* robfrankel   Also, Disney is a horribly oppressive place to work. The very top echelon gets paid big bucks, but everyone else gets munched.
* webs   Well, I know the theme parks have people raving about them. Don't know about much else. BUt I guess that would be the Hollywood way... top echelon gets huge bucks everyone else starves.
* webs   We like to go to Epcot Center
* robfrankel   Disney employees are subjected to draconian treatment and pay. The pay is usually low and the number of "spies" is quite high.
* webs   Well, they are wanting to create and keep an image for their clients
* robfrankel   Ah, Disneyworld. Last place in town where you can get a $15 hot dog!
* robfrankel   Of course, Disney is the argument for branding. They can stamp that logo on anything and sell it for 5x what it should sell for.
* webs   Also, nobody is forcing the people to work at Disney. If they don't like the conditions, they can quit.
* webs   Free Enterprise and all
* anita2306   But the perks are nice for some (at least here in Disneyland)
* robfrankel   That's the point. It's like the guy sweeping up shit after the elephant. When someone asks him why he does it for such little pay, he replies, "What -- and leave show business?"
* robfrankel   Brand-wise, Disney is sort of on the Playboy path....which I blogged about recently. Playboy is another strong brand that could be coming back IF Hefner takes it private and regains control.
* anita2306   So, back to the question of handling clients who have their expectations set too high...
* robfrankel   Okay....
* webs   I know some people who worked as musicians at Disney. THey said it was pretty good. Also some independent contractors (air conditioning, maintenance, etc) they got paid well. Just had to be professional and get their work done on time and right or they were penalized.
* anita2306   What does it take to get a client to be more realistic?
* robfrankel   What about them, Anita?
* webs   Anita, are you wanting to lower expectations, or make them more realistic about what to expect.
* robfrankel   Well, the solution is right there in your last comment:
Allowing CLIENTS to set their OWN expectations is the problem.
* robfrankel   YOU have to set their expectations for them. That's part of the education.
* allanp73   hi..got in..had issues logging in
* anita2306   Other than explaining (over and over again) that they cannot expect and I cannot guarantee a #1 listing on Google, I am at a loss
* robfrankel   That's actually what the brand is about. If you don't publicly set expectations for your brand and its products/services, everyone sets their own and you can't possibly satisfy them all.
* robfrankel   Hi Allan!
* webs   Anita, one thing we do. When a client asks for something we can not do, or do in the time they are wanting it, we tell them we can not do it. If they keep on asking for or demanding it, BEFORE we go into a contract... I aks them "Do you want me to lie to you? Because if you want me to lie to you I will tell you we can do that."
* robfrankel   When everyone sets their own, NOBODY is satisfied and your reputation sinks.
* anita2306   What is really making me mad is that a site that ranks higher than them isn't even there anymore
* webs   They usually, come back and say "No just tell me the truth." and the matter gets settled
* robfrankel   Allan, feel free to jump in with a comment or question...
* allanp73   hey anita..i have same issue...a client is refusing to pay me because i didn't get her to #1..i got her #15 for main keyword and top ten for equally powerful keywords
* anita2306   Allan, did you guarantee the #1 position?
* robfrankel   But did your service agreement or sales pitch claim to get her to #1?
* allanp73   problem was I probably could have gotten her to top place but she had previous seo that did bunch of bad things and there were penalties against her site that I also had to get resolved...i never gaurantee rankings
* robfrankel   Great minds thinking alike here...
* allanp73   i don't own Google so can't make such guarantees
* robfrankel   If you didn't claim you could get her to #1, she must have some other basis on which she's withholding payment.
* webs   Rob and Anita, those were the questions I was going to ask too. No sense in being redundant unless it is from the Department of Redundancy Department
* webs   Allan, were you IMPLYING you would get her to #1?
* robfrankel   It's REALLY important to look at your new business pitch LANGUAGE. People tend to read and glean WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR, rather than what you actually mean.
* robfrankel   Then you have to use the same diligence in your Service Agreement to make sure you have a paper trail showing YOUR consistency.
* allanp73   nope..she had bad experiences with previous SEO's so expects top placement or won't pay..I explained before and after that no one can guarantee rankings..I did help her move up 30 positions and got her rankings for many other important keywords..she is being stubborn and focused on 1 term and lacks trust
* robfrankel   It's one thing if a client doesn't understand ONE document, but two is already sheer negligence on his part.
* anita2306   I guess what i should do is make their meta tags look like everyone else's , lower my standards, and get a bunch of useless inbound links...
* robfrankel   Allan, I'm betting your service agreement -- if you have one -- needs some serious rewriting.
* allanp73   anita what was the site and term you were targeting?
* allanp73   yeah..i don't use one..that's biggest issue
* anita2306   San Diego real estate, one of the most competitive terms out there
* anita2306   http://www.sdhomes.com
* robfrankel   Anita's original issue still stands here:
It's all about SETTING CLIENT EXPECTATIONS FOR THEM. You can't leave this stuff to them. They'll usually get it wrong and you won't be able to deliver on their impossible/unrealistic expectations.
* webs   Anita, no that is NOT what you should do. You should make them understand no one can guarantee a long lasting high position without constant work. And if someone does guarnatee a number one position look forward to being banned from the search engine. And make sure your client understands that.
* allanp73   funny i use to rank#1 for that term..i was really into real estate marketing about 5 years ago
* anita2306   In the middle of the their second month with us, they decided to go with a whole new website...
* robfrankel   Allan, NO SERVICE AGREEMENT? Holy cow!
Here comes the PLUG:
fb-104
Critical Business Agreements in MS-WORD Format
Ready-to-use, search and replace Business Agreements, Service Agreement, Non-Disclosure/Non-circumvent Agreement, Estimate Form. Save money by having your lawyer approve them, instead of writing them from scratch. Downloads as a ZIP file, for easy extraction on any platform.
* allanp73   anita..the seo on that site isn't great
no h1..title tag weak etc
* robfrankel   It's at http://frankelbiz.com/stock/StockCatalog.php?m=store
* allanp73   lol thx rob
* anita2306   And the sites that rank higher are the really big real estate sites, like Realtor.com and Trulia.
* robfrankel   Allan, you MUST use a Service Agreement. Without it, all your talent and work is pointless.
* robfrankel   Remember, the BUSINESS you're in is about making money, not your talent or ability.
* anita2306   Allan, I disagree a bit. The title tag is fine, but the description sucks
* robfrankel   There are lots of people with talent and ability out there who can''t make a dime because they don't know how to run a business.
* robfrankel   And a business is about generating revenue, not your abiilty. Take care of business first. Always.
* allanp73   problem i have is usually my services get sold by other companies..they manage the clients..i do poor job of managing them myself..I'm good at SEo and web marketing but weak at money collecting
* allanp73   title tag: SDHOMES: San Diego Real Estate Listings (MLS)
* robfrankel   Allan, if you KNOW you're not good at business, make it your business to GET BETTER at it. It's costing you your livelihood.
* allanp73   should be:
SDHOMES: San Diego Real Estate Listings (MLS)
* allanp73   - SDHOMES:
* anita2306   Yes, because they want to be known for San Diego real estate Listings. What would you suggest?
* pete1405   Good morning Rob
* robfrankel   Hi Pete!
* allanp73   the business name at end..instead of beginning
* anita2306   Why?
* robfrankel   Hey Pete, what's up?
* allanp73   also shouldn't refer to company as SDHOMES...meaningless..should be San Diego Homes because those are keywords..the sdhomes will rank well regards
* allanp73   proximity very important..putting the company name at beginning is a major weakening of the power of the title tag
* anita2306   Again, having to deal with the wants of the client
* anita2306   And, I have never found that putting the biz name at the beginning is a wekness
* allanp73   i used to have #1 site for every real estate market in North America..i know how competitive the space is..you have to make your seo very tight to compete
* robfrankel   Whoa, I just got kicked off!
* webs   Anita, From this answer I can see your problem. The root of your problem. Wanna know what I think it is?... Ok I'll tell you. You are not taking control. Your client is. Letting that happen can ONLY result in faliure.
* allanp73   it makes a different..every little bit helps
* allanp73   difference*
* anita2306   But it looks like everyone else has the same site with the same title tag
* robfrankel   Of course you are correct Webs. And clients WANT a consultant to take the lead. That's why they hire consultants!
If they could do it themselves, they would.
* anita2306   Yes, but when the threat is that they will drop us due to not being the top ranking, what can I do?
* allanp73   anita give me a call 905-417-9470 the on page SEO is really weak..i wouldn't have guessed it was optimized if you hadn't mentioned it
* robfrankel   Whenever a client threatens ANYTHING, you call their bluff. Period.
* webs   Try to work it out. If not, wish them good luck, and get more clients in the time you would be wasting fretting about them leaving, and dealing wiht their misery. If you are the best, they will be back... hat in hand.
* pete1405   Allow me a quick off topic please. Does anyone have any personal contacts with the new $20B BP Oil Fund program? I know Kenneth Feigbery is the top person, I'm looking for a person that is a lieutenant or aide in that progam.
* pete1405   Feinberg
* webs   Pete, make a post in Frankelbiz
* robfrankel   Pete, I don't know anyone there. totally out of my domain. But have you tried Twitter? You can throw out a lifeline there and probably get some good response.
* allanp73   twitter actually is good idea..i know they are updating public via twitter
* pete1405   Thanks. Good idea.
* robfrankel   And if you don't get anything directly, there are lots of PR people with great connections there that could see your tweet.
* robfrankel   TEN MINUTE WARNING....still plenty of time.
* allanp73   I was hoping someone might be able to help me out I was looking for people involved in public speaking..i would be to build my brand and want to do more speaking engagements..i can talk about SEO, social media and any type of online marketing
* allanp73   i would like* to build my brand...i realize my typing sux :(
* robfrankel   Allan, I don't do much public speaking any more because most gigs don't pay speaking fees (unless it's a key note or feature). I've never gotten any business from free speaking.
* robfrankel   I've found it to be much more effective to respond to reporter queries that get published in stories.
* allanp73   really i thought free speaking would be nice in with clients
* webs   Allan, why not start doing some paid webinars?
* anita2306   There are a number of places to look for these sorts of queries: HARO (Help a Reportor Out); Reporter Connection,...
* allanp73   i do many paid speaking engagement with my current client base but want to build a bigger name for myself
* webs   You could probably find bazillions of internet marketers who would love to do a JV with you.
* robfrankel   In fact, from responding to a New York Times reporter, I did two TV appearances for Canadian TV on the same day last week.
* allanp73   i've done many webinars but like the idea of public speaking
* anita2306   http://www.helpareporter.com
* robfrankel   It's a better bet to leverage one reporter's connection with a targeted audience, IMHO. Takes less time, too.
* webs   Allan, look for the guys who put on big marketing seminars, and see if you can get slotted to speak there
* allanp73   i wouldn't mind doing tv..did shows in the past and was published in New York Times before..its been awhile since I've tried contacting the media
* robfrankel   Public speaking can be fun, but unless you're commanding big fees, they're usually more ego stroke than money makers.
* allanp73   .- looking for ego stroke :)
* webs   Ego strokes or resume builders
* robfrankel   Or if you're looking for SEO groupies waiting for you backstage.... :D
* robfrankel   There are just SO many branding groupies, ya know, it just got to be too much.... :D
* allanp73   thx anita..checking that link out
* robfrankel   TWO MINUTES
* webs   Rock Star Rob
* allanp73   i have lots of groupies on twitter lol..almost 16k followers
* robfrankel   Had to have ALL my hair extensions redone AND my should pads re-stuffed.
* allanp73   lol
* anita2306   Allan, what is you Twitter name?
* robfrankel   Alrighty then, that should do it for another Monday! Thanks everyone for your insights. I've gotta run, but the room stays open for 15 more minutes. Archives should be up in a day or two! Have a great week. I'll see you online!
* webs   Just don't get caught doing what that guy in Spinal Tap did in the movie with the bananna in the ariport :)
* webs   Especially now days with the full body scans
* webs   Take care all
* allanp73   anita feel free to call me about the sdhomes site
* robfrankel   Bananas don't set off metal detectors....
* anita2306   ok
* allanp73   on twitter..i'm allanp73
* anita2306   I'm @searchguru
* allanp73   cool i'll follow u
* allanp73   i actually targeted "seo guru" on google for fun.i'm #1 in canada..not sure about in US
* allanp73   bye all :)