* robfrankel Yes, there IS a Free Clinic today, Monday, August 2, 2010! It will begin at the top of the hour as designated by the clock in the upper right hand corner of your browser.
At that time, I'll be back here, hanging out for an hour to help anyone who drops by with their branding, business and other issues.
So grab a cup of coffee, a muffin and limber up your fingers for the web's longest-running, publicly archived business chat!
* robfrankel Alrighty then, the Free Clinic is open!
I'll keep my browser open for the next hour, as we've done for practically every Monday morning since 1998, in the event anyone drops by with a question, issue or business/branding problem....
- fraser Hi Rob, thought I'd pop by and say hello
* robfrankel Hi Fraser!
- fraser Interesting that TV piece you did about Facebook.
* robfrankel Yeah, I'm not a huge fan.
* robfrankel Facebook will likely go public in the next year, but methinks it will likely go the way of AOL eventually.
- fraser i think it has driving traffic merits. I've ran a couple of campaigns for people targeting by user interest, by location etc. Certainly less taxing to use than google adwords
* robfrankel But what kind of results have you gotten on Facebook via ads?
* robfrankel Our tests were complete bombs. LinkedIn did even worse.
* robfrankel I still haven't seen or heard of any client whose Facebook campaigns did anything positive.
* anita2306 Good morning!
* robfrankel I certainly HAVE seen campaigns that were failures: Burger King was the most infamous....
* robfrankel Hi Anita! Hello Titus! Titus, feel free to jump in.
- fraser well i did one for myself - 306k impressions, 46 clicks, 0.015% CTR but no sign ups. So business services don't work. Doing one for a domestic service which may be more relevant. I read some perry marshall case studies that were ok
- titus given that most of the time spent on facebook is playing games, I'm not surprised FB ads tend to not do too well. My tests have not been very good there either.
* anita2306 I have not bothered to do a Facebook page as no one is looking for SEO there either
* robfrankel Oh, for sure Facebook can't close sales. It's another case of tons of eyeballs but no discernible sales potential.
- fraser oh, i thought fb was for cougars lol :)
* robfrankel When you think about it, it makes sense, too: Facebook is a leisure activity. A time suck, mainly for people who have nothing to do.
* robfrankel Fraser, Facebook isn't for cougars; it's for old high school people you had hoped would never contact you again.....
* anita2306 LOL
* anita2306 Coaches seem to be able to use it, also retailers, bars, nightclubs, etc.
- titus which is what happened to me last year - 20th HS reunion - suddenly half the people who'd looked at like me I was a nerd for putzing with computers were now facebook-friending me from their laptops. Same people who haven't contacted me for 20 years... ugh.
- fraser Rob you are right. except the 2 who give you business :) I stream blog and twitter posts into my fb account - if they subject me to their holiday photos, then i'll subject them to what i do
* robfrankel Titus, now I'm getting deluged with "unofficial" reunions at bars and clubs, from people who never bothered to call me when I was in high school or even middle school.
* robfrankel Fraser, I actually do get business from TWITTER, because my Tweeps are mainly business-oriented, so they know why I'm there.
* anita2306 I use the Selective Tweets app for Facebook
* robfrankel Jeez, if I see one more picture of a newly-single high school woman in a black cocktail dress, I'm gonna lose it.
- fraser yes your Twitter posts are great Rob - i'm not surprised you are successful with it
- titus I've got a pretty unique 'real life' name. Anyone who actually cared to ever find me before FB got big already did (about 3 of them). So... I basically ignore most of FB. I was also getting sucked in to "How's it going?" "Oh, I lost my job and have been unemployed for 3 years".... bit of a threadkiller - nothing to say. Now... if I started playing farmville with them and bought tractors for their fields, we'd reconnect.
* robfrankel Facebook is more like iVillage, to me. Lots of eyeballs, but no real purpose. And media agencies who don't know any better -- or anything about business -- will keep buying programs there until the clients finally get wise.
* robfrankel DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON FARMVILLE!!! :D
* anita2306 I finally broke a few friends of mine of the habit of sending me pigs...
- titus sorry :(
* robfrankel Interstingly, I'd bet that Facebook numbers start freefalling as soon as the economic recovery kicks in and people actually get busy again.
* robfrankel A friend of mine on Twitter put it well: How bad can the recession be when people are lining up to pay retail for iPads and iPhones?
* anita2306 Naw, there are always a lot of housewives with toomuch time on their hands
- titus agreed. engagement numbers will fall off. I suspect the *number* of people will remain steady or grow for a bit longer, but the time spent per person will likely go down. It'll be spun that there's more 'mobile' growth so it's all great, but the hours per day some people spend will drop off.
* anita2306 Did you see the survey results of iPad buyers? LOL
* robfrankel Anita, the housewives play on MySpace while they wait for the pool man....
* robfrankel Titus, you're dead on target.
* robfrankel No Anita, what's the iPad survey say?
* anita2306 That iPad users are elitist, cold fish who won't cross the street to help someone out...
- titus it said ipad buyers were self-centered, basically.
- titus http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/jul/30/ipad-owners-personality-facebook
- titus "iPad owners are an elite bunch," said MyType on its website. "They're wealthy, highly educated and sophisticated. They value power and achievement much more than others. They're also selfish, scoring low on measures of kindness and altruism."
* robfrankel I'm not a big iPad fan. Love Apple's Mac stuff, but everywhere I go, I see people awkwardly handling it. No real point to it, in my life, anyway.
- fraser Rob, our golf club visitors are up about 40% on last year. Cost is $240 a round. But its all American playing. But the economy & biz aint pretty over here.
* robfrankel That survey doesn't surprise me, really. When you think about it, iPad is a CONSUMPTION device, not for productivity. So the people who use it would tend to be self-absorbed....
- titus I'm probably picking one up for an ipad project, but haven't rushed out otherwise.
* robfrankel Fraser, this is a weird economy, because people still have money.
* anita2306 It's just a big iTouch, and I have one of those
* robfrankel Perfect example: This year, I decided to take the family to Europe for vacation. One main reason? The Euro dipped to $1.19! That's down from $1.50 six months previous......
* robfrankel So people are buying opportunistically.
- fraser your right its weird. All my good biz is start up biz. Old established biz models and clients i think are the ones stuck, in trouble.
* robfrankel That's my theory, anyway.
* robfrankel The sticking issue is businesses who are on the fence and won't commit to investment. THOSE are the guys we need to motivate.
* robfrankel My particular business has actually increased during this recession. I take that to mean businesses are taking a break to recalibrate for the recovery.
- titus I think part of the reason people aren't committing as much is that prices keep dropping in some areas. Why buy now if you can get a better deal 2 months from now (assuming you don't have a pressing *need* today)?
* robfrankel Titus, true dat: I put off buying a new TV for YEARS because it wasn't that important to me. But when I saw the kind I wanted -- at less than half of what it retails for -- I jumped.
* anita2306 Yet, in my area, prices keep going up.
* robfrankel Anita, really? That's why I buy almost everything online now. At least the major purchases.
* robfrankel Fraser, I agree that start up businesses are motivated. They know that a lull in the economy equals a minimizing of noise and clutter.
* robfrankel Their messages have a much better chance of being seen/heard.
* anita2306 I meant, my line of work
* robfrankel Anita, if prices are going up, that should be good for you.
- fraser you betcha they are motivated. And they have found a niche. My clients who have established businesses just don't get the "niche" thing and hence suffer from trying to be a jack of all trades.
* robfrankel Fraser, that "be everything to everyone" is a common problem. One of the first hurdles I have to get clients to overcome.
* robfrankel Then again, we all have to get over that, some time. I remember how painful it was to give up my ad agency message before focusing on branding.
- fraser Rob, I know your Branding Laws off by heart now :)
* robfrankel But then, when you realize you can LEAD with one niched attribute, you can always sell clients on related stuff down the road, when they need them.
* robfrankel Speaking of which, Fraser, I finally put the second edition of the book up on Amazon. Running low on that first edition.... :D
* anita2306 I am very focused in my niche, but everyone wants to be #1 on Google, no matter how many times I tell them that I cannot guarantee it
* robfrankel It's all about setting expectations, Anita....
* robfrankel In fact, that was a lot of what the MSNBC clip to which Fraser referred was about.
* robfrankel Facebook isn't setting any expectations, so people are setting their own.
* robfrankel Hi Rick!
* anita2306 What do I have to do, hit them over the head with it?
- rick_goldberg Anita: You have to act as the client and prove your value.
* robfrankel Anita, yes, you do. It may bore the heck out of you, but you'll find the need for perpetual reinforcement is a big part of consulting.
* robfrankel It helps if you constantly tie in your repetition with results as you achieve them. use them when you provide rationale for why you're doing what you're doing.
* robfrankel That way, you prove -- in real time -- that what you say has the value that Rick is talking about.
- rick_goldberg Rob: I have been reading your Email e-book. If 2% is a good return, wouldn't a better one be going to conferences where the attendees are all targets? Also, how did you find a CEO Email list?
* robfrankel But the simple answer is yes, you do have to constantly reinforce it.
- rick_goldberg Anita: I once paid a vendor to promote one of my keywords (audio processors). After a year, there was no way to determine the results.
* robfrankel Rick conference attendees would seem like a good target, and it may be, but don't forget that many conferences are like networking events with more people looking to sell what they've got than to buy what you offer.
- fraser i'll check out 2nd edition. I have to say i do like buying ebook via iBooks and Kindle :)
* anita2306 Wouldn't your web stats help determine the results?
* robfrankel Rick, the ebook mentions at least one source for corporate executives. but there are quite a few. If you're going to invest in ANYTHING, a solid e-mail list is the BEST way to go, IMHO.
* robfrankel Fraser, ROBX will not go electronic, at least not in the near future. Just not a viable channel. For one thing, nobody can see anyone else reading it!
* robfrankel And you can't leave a Kindle book lying around on a coffee table.
* robfrankel In fact, the more books become Kindle-types, the more differentiated old tree-killers will become!
- rick_goldberg The objective is finding PR managers and marketing managers with budgets. It doesn't matter why they are there. What matters is my cost and effort in finding them.
* robfrankel NINE MINUTE WARNING: Still plenty of time.
* anita2306 Rick, have you looked at Hoovers.com for these lists? If you don't want to pay for it, many public libraries have the paid version
* robfrankel Rick, if you're trying to reach PR and marketing managers, you need to go over their heads and realize that they work for someone else. If that someone else isn't happy with their managers' work, THOSE are the guys feeling the pain. THAT'S who you need to target
* anita2306 I dislike Kindle because of the censorship problems
* anita2306 Besides, I don't need yet another gadget.
* robfrankel Anita/Rick, look at it this way:
Most list companies will provide executive lists for what, maybe $2500 for tens of thousands. After you purge the lists, maybe 80% are good. Sounds expensive UNTIL you figure that you need maybe ONE of them to close and your list is paid for the entire year.
- fraser ok, end of the day here, nice chatting
* robfrankel The trick is to find a reliable list vendor. THAT'S where your research pays off.
* robfrankel Bye Fraser! Best to you over there!
* robfrankel (Fraser's in Scotland, last I checked.)
- rick_goldberg Thanks, Rob. Next time let's chat about crafting a pitch.
* robfrankel I'll be here.
* anita2306 I figured that out when he mentioned golf.
* robfrankel Fraser and I actually met for breakfast when I visited Scotland in 2001.
* robfrankel TWO MINUTES
- fraser Yes, Rob and I met in 2001 in Glasgow, totally changed my life. Gotta thank him for it.
* anita2306 Rob, what are your thoughts on FourSquare?
* robfrankel FourSquare is a Stalker's Dream. A huge waste of time and a gargantuan sacrifice of privacy that users will NEVER get back.
Gosh, I really should be more open about things, eh?
* anita2306 Great way to end the chat!
* robfrankel WHo was it that wrote that the Devil will appear as a helpful agent, not immediately evil? That's how I feel about these data-sucking apps that lull idiots into giving away their privacy.
* robfrankel Alrighty then, that should do it for another Monday! Thanks everyone for your insights. I've gotta run, but the room stays open for 15 more minutes. Archives should be up in a day or two! Have a great week. I'll see you online!
- rick_goldberg FourSquare enables the user to find friends in a crowded bar on the other side of the country.